Born to do Math 121 - Forms of Order: 10^58, 10^9, 10^22, and 10^89
Scott Douglas Jacobsen & Rick Rosner
May 22, 2019
[Beginning of recorded material]
Scott Douglas Jacobsen: What about the overall argument?
Rick Rosner: My argument would be that it is untenable with the overall universe and its information processing with its holding every individual atom in its awareness. So, the matter in the universe at our scale - a planetary scale or planetary affairs, what goes on, on a planet. That stuff is allowed to go on below the overall awareness of the information processing that is the universe.
The universe still needs this stuff going on, this micro stuff. It still needs stars at 10^60th atoms. But the universe is not concerned or able to keep track of what is going on from a moment to moment basis among the 10^58 to the 10^60 atoms in a star
Because among those 10^50th atoms - they're really atoms as everything is ionized, so nuclei and free electrons, each atom - let's call them atoms for now - might interact a billion times in a second. It doesn't matter if a million or a trillion times in a second.
It is still 10^58 times 10^9 interactions per atom per second gives you 10^67 interactions in a star per second, and the computational entity that is the wider universe, even though it has a huge information capacity, is not aware of its computations.
Every one of the 10^67 interactions going on in every 10^22 stars in the universe per second. That raises a second question, "What then does count as a computation in the universe or a consequential computation in the universe, or a consequential thought or conclusion?"
Jacobsen: A computation not separated from the wider universe.
Rosner: Regardless of whether the universe is conscious, a computational entity should be able to draw something like conclusions. That when we put data into a computer, we expect data to come out. We expect the computer to compute and to deliver the product of those computations, whether it is numbers on a spreadsheet or frames of a videogame.
Those frames are the results of computations. That's what computers are for, to do computations. ON a larger scale, in an analogous way, you would expect the universe to be processing data and producing results.
Regardless of whether the results are end products or through products, but, what are they in the wider universe? For one thing, the universe is computing itself. The quantum interactions that take place at the huge rate that we're talking about.
We're talking 10^67 interactions time 10^22 stars is close to 10^89 quantum interactions per second in the entire universe. But those are micro computations or interactions. You would expect that the universe is operating on a more macro level.
What are those more macro computations or forms do those macro computations take? Or is the universe just the sum of its micro computations? Which I have a hard time believing, because if the universe were really just its micro computations and quantum interactions, why would it need these vast macro structures - 10^11 galaxies each containing 10^11 stars with the galaxies, clusters, and the solar systems? These macro structures that reflect the overall structure.
You cannot have a universe that is self-defining to this extent without those macro structures or the universe having differentiated itself into 10^22 stars. There is a question as to the significance of micro phenomena and macro phenomena and what they mean informationally to the overall universe.
The end.
Rick Rosner: My argument would be that it is untenable with the overall universe and its information processing with its holding every individual atom in its awareness. So, the matter in the universe at our scale - a planetary scale or planetary affairs, what goes on, on a planet. That stuff is allowed to go on below the overall awareness of the information processing that is the universe.
The universe still needs this stuff going on, this micro stuff. It still needs stars at 10^60th atoms. But the universe is not concerned or able to keep track of what is going on from a moment to moment basis among the 10^58 to the 10^60 atoms in a star
Because among those 10^50th atoms - they're really atoms as everything is ionized, so nuclei and free electrons, each atom - let's call them atoms for now - might interact a billion times in a second. It doesn't matter if a million or a trillion times in a second.
It is still 10^58 times 10^9 interactions per atom per second gives you 10^67 interactions in a star per second, and the computational entity that is the wider universe, even though it has a huge information capacity, is not aware of its computations.
Every one of the 10^67 interactions going on in every 10^22 stars in the universe per second. That raises a second question, "What then does count as a computation in the universe or a consequential computation in the universe, or a consequential thought or conclusion?"
Jacobsen: A computation not separated from the wider universe.
Rosner: Regardless of whether the universe is conscious, a computational entity should be able to draw something like conclusions. That when we put data into a computer, we expect data to come out. We expect the computer to compute and to deliver the product of those computations, whether it is numbers on a spreadsheet or frames of a videogame.
Those frames are the results of computations. That's what computers are for, to do computations. ON a larger scale, in an analogous way, you would expect the universe to be processing data and producing results.
Regardless of whether the results are end products or through products, but, what are they in the wider universe? For one thing, the universe is computing itself. The quantum interactions that take place at the huge rate that we're talking about.
We're talking 10^67 interactions time 10^22 stars is close to 10^89 quantum interactions per second in the entire universe. But those are micro computations or interactions. You would expect that the universe is operating on a more macro level.
What are those more macro computations or forms do those macro computations take? Or is the universe just the sum of its micro computations? Which I have a hard time believing, because if the universe were really just its micro computations and quantum interactions, why would it need these vast macro structures - 10^11 galaxies each containing 10^11 stars with the galaxies, clusters, and the solar systems? These macro structures that reflect the overall structure.
You cannot have a universe that is self-defining to this extent without those macro structures or the universe having differentiated itself into 10^22 stars. There is a question as to the significance of micro phenomena and macro phenomena and what they mean informationally to the overall universe.
The end.
[End of recorded material]
Authors[1]
Rick Rosner
American Television Writer
RickRosner@Hotmail.Com
Rick Rosner
(Updated March 7, 2019)
According to semi-reputable sources, Rick Rosner has the world’s second-highest IQ. He earned 12 years of college credit in less than a year and graduated with the equivalent of 8 majors. He has received 8 Writers Guild Award and Emmy nominations, and was named 2013 North American Genius of the Year by The World Genius Registry.
He has written for Remote Control, Crank Yankers, The Man Show, The Emmys, The Grammys, and Jimmy Kimmel Live!. He worked as a bouncer, a nude art model, a roller-skating waiter, and a stripper. In a television commercial, Domino’s Pizza named him the "World’s Smartest Man." The commercial was taken off the air after Subway sandwiches issued a cease-and-desist. He was named "Best Bouncer" in the Denver Area, Colorado, by Westwood Magazine.
Rosner spent much of the late Disco Era as an undercover high school student. In addition, he spent 25 years as a bar bouncer and American fake ID-catcher, and 25+ years as a stripper, and nearly 30 years as a writer for more than 2,500 hours of network television. He came in second or lost on Jeopardy!, sued Who Wants to Be a Millionaire over a flawed question and lost the lawsuit. He won one game and lost one game on Are You Smarter Than a Drunk Person? (He was drunk). Finally, he spent 37+ years working on a time invariant variation of the Big Bang Theory.
Currently, Rosner sits tweeting in a bathrobe (winter) or a towel (summer). He lives in Los Angeles, California with his wife, dog, and goldfish. He and his wife have a daughter. You can send him money or questions at LanceversusRick@Gmail.Com, or a direct message via Twitter, or find him on LinkedIn, or see him on YouTube.
Scott Douglas Jacobsen
Editor-in-Chief, In-Sight Publishing
Scott.D.Jacobsen@Gmail.Com
In-Sight Publishing
(Updated September 28, 2016)
Scott Douglas Jacobsen founded In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal and In-Sight Publishing. He authored/co-authored some e-books, free or low-cost. If you want to contact Scott: Scott.D.Jacobsen@Gmail.com.
He is a Moral Courage Webmaster and Outreach Specialist (Fall, 2016) at the UCI Interdisciplinary Center for the Scientific Study of Ethics and Morality (Ethics Center), Interview Columnist for Conatus News, Writer and Executive Administrator for Trusted Clothes, Interview Columnist for Basic Income Earth Network (BIEN), Councillor for the Athabasca University Student Union, Member of the Learning Analytics Research Group, writer for The Voice Magazine, Your Political Party of BC, ProBC, Marijuana Party of Canada, Fresh Start Recovery Centre, Harvest House Ministries, and Little Footprints Big Steps International Development Organization, Editor and Proofreader for Alfred Yi Zhang Photography, Community Journalist/Blogger for Gordon Neighbourhood House, Member-at-Large, Member of the Outreach Committee, the Finance & Fundraising Committee, and the Special Projects & Political Advocacy Committee, and Writer for Canadian Students for Sensible Drug Policy, Member of the Lifespan Cognition Psychology Lab and IMAGe Psychology Lab, Collaborator with Dr. Farhad Dastur in creation of the CriticalThinkingWiki, Board Member, and Foundation Volunteer Committee Member for the Fraser Valley Health Care Foundation, and Independent Landscaper.
He was a Francisco Ayala Scholar at the UCI Ethics Center, Member of the Psychometric Society Graduate Student Committee, Special Advisor and Writer for ECOSOC at NWMUN, Writer for TransplantFirstAcademy and ProActive Path, Member of AT-CURA Psychology Lab, Contributor for a student policy review, Vice President of Outreach for the Almas Jiwani Foundation, worked with Manahel Thabet on numerous initiatives, Student Member of the Ad–Hoc Executive Compensation Review Committee for the Athabasca University Student Union, Volunteer and Writer for British Columbia Psychological Association, Community Member of the KPU Choir (even performed with them alongside the Vancouver Symphony Orchestra), Delegate at Harvard World MUN, NWMUN, UBC MUN, and Long Beach Intercollegiate MUN, and Writer and Member of the Communications Committee for The PIPE UP Network.
He published in American Enterprise Institute, Annaborgia, Conatus News, Earth Skin & Eden, Fresh Start Recovery Centre, Gordon Neighbourhood House, Huffington Post, In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, Jolly Dragons, Kwantlen Polytechnic University Psychology Department, La Petite Mort, Learning Analytics Research Group, Lifespan Cognition Psychology Lab, Lost in Samara, Marijuana Party of Canada, MomMandy, Noesis: The Journal of the Mega Society, Piece of Mind, Production Mode, Synapse, TeenFinancial, The Peak, The Ubyssey, The Voice Magazine, Transformative Dialogues, Treasure Box Kids, Trusted Clothes.
Endnotes
- Bold text following “Scott Douglas Jacobsen:” or “Jacobsen:” is Scott Douglas Jacobsen & non-bold text following “Rick Rosner:” or “Rosner:” is Rick Rosner.
- Session article conducted, transcribed, edited, formatted, and published by Scott.
- Footnotes & in-text citations in the interview & references after the interview.
- This session article has been edited for clarity and readability.
For further information on the formatting guidelines incorporated into this document, please see the following documents:
- American Psychological Association. (2010). Citation Guide: APA. Retrieved from http://www.lib.sfu.ca/system/files/28281/APA6CitationGuideSFUv3.pdf.
- Humble, A. (n.d.). Guide to Transcribing. Retrieved from http://www.msvu.ca/site/media/msvu/Transcription%20Guide.pdf.
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Based on a work at www.in-sightjournal.com and www.rickrosner.org.
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