## Wednesday 22 May 2019

### Born to do Math 121 - Forms of Order: 10^58, 10^9, 10^22, and 10^89

Born to do Math 121 - Forms of Order: 10^58, 10^9, 10^22, and 10^89
Scott Douglas Jacobsen & Rick Rosner
May 22, 2019

[Beginning of recorded material]

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: What about the overall argument?

Rick Rosner: My argument would be that it is untenable with the overall universe and its information processing with its holding every individual atom in its awareness. So, the matter in the universe at our scale - a planetary scale or planetary affairs, what goes on, on a planet. That stuff is allowed to go on below the overall awareness of the information processing that is the universe.

The universe still needs this stuff going on, this micro stuff. It still needs stars at 10^60th atoms. But the universe is not concerned or able to keep track of what is going on from a moment to moment basis among the 10^58 to the 10^60 atoms in a star

Because among those 10^50th atoms - they're really atoms as everything is ionized, so nuclei and free electrons, each atom - let's call them atoms for now - might interact a billion times in a second. It doesn't matter if a million or a trillion times in a second.

It is still 10^58 times 10^9 interactions per atom per second gives you 10^67 interactions in a star per second, and the computational entity that is the wider universe, even though it has a huge information capacity, is not aware of its computations.

Every one of the 10^67 interactions going on in every 10^22 stars in the universe per second. That raises a second question, "What then does count as a computation in the universe or a consequential computation in the universe, or a consequential thought or conclusion?"

Jacobsen: A computation not separated from the wider universe.

Rosner: Regardless of whether the universe is conscious, a computational entity should be able to draw something like conclusions. That when we put data into a computer, we expect data to come out. We expect the computer to compute and to deliver the product of those computations, whether it is numbers on a spreadsheet or frames of a videogame.

Those frames are the results of computations. That's what computers are for, to do computations. ON a larger scale, in an analogous way, you would expect the universe to be processing data and producing results.

Regardless of whether the results are end products or through products, but, what are they in the wider universe? For one thing, the universe is computing itself. The quantum interactions that take place at the huge rate that we're talking about.

We're talking 10^67 interactions time 10^22 stars is close to 10^89 quantum interactions per second in the entire universe. But those are micro computations or interactions. You would expect that the universe is operating on a more macro level.

What are those more macro computations or forms do those macro computations take? Or is the universe just the sum of its micro computations? Which I have a hard time believing, because if the universe were really just its micro computations and quantum interactions, why would it need these vast macro structures - 10^11 galaxies each containing 10^11 stars with the galaxies, clusters, and the solar systems? These macro structures that reflect the overall structure.

You cannot have a universe that is self-defining to this extent without those macro structures or the universe having differentiated itself into 10^22 stars. There is a question as to the significance of micro phenomena and macro phenomena and what they mean informationally to the overall universe.

The end.

[End of recorded material]

Authors[1]

Rick Rosner

American Television Writer
RickRosner@Hotmail.Com
Rick Rosner

(Updated March 7, 2019)

According to semi-reputable sources, Rick Rosner has the world’s second-highest IQ. He earned 12 years of college credit in less than a year and graduated with the equivalent of 8 majors. He has received 8 Writers Guild Award and Emmy nominations, and was named 2013 North American Genius of the Year by The World Genius Registry.

He has written for Remote ControlCrank YankersThe Man ShowThe EmmysThe Grammys, and Jimmy Kimmel Live!. He worked as a bouncer, a nude art model, a roller-skating waiter, and a stripper. In a television commercial, Domino’s Pizza named him the "World’s Smartest Man." The commercial was taken off the air after Subway sandwiches issued a cease-and-desist. He was named "Best Bouncer" in the Denver Area, Colorado, by Westwood Magazine.

Rosner spent much of the late Disco Era as an undercover high school student. In addition, he spent 25 years as a bar bouncer and American fake ID-catcher, and 25+ years as a stripper, and nearly 30 years as a writer for more than 2,500 hours of network television. He came in second or lost on Jeopardy!, sued Who Wants to Be a Millionaire over a flawed question and lost the lawsuit. He won one game and lost one game on Are You Smarter Than a Drunk Person? (He was drunk). Finally, he spent 37+ years working on a time invariant variation of the Big Bang Theory.

Currently, Rosner sits tweeting in a bathrobe (winter) or a towel (summer). He lives in Los Angeles, California with his wife, dog, and goldfish. He and his wife have a daughter. You can send him money or questions at LanceversusRick@Gmail.Com, or a direct message via Twitter, or find him on LinkedIn, or see him on YouTube.

Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Editor-in-Chief, In-Sight Publishing
Scott.D.Jacobsen@Gmail.Com
In-Sight Publishing

(Updated September 28, 2016)

Scott Douglas Jacobsen founded In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal and In-Sight Publishing. He authored/co-authored some e-books, free or low-cost. If you want to contact Scott: Scott.D.Jacobsen@Gmail.com.

He is a Moral Courage Webmaster and Outreach Specialist (Fall, 2016) at the UCI Interdisciplinary Center for the Scientific Study of Ethics and Morality (Ethics Center), Interview Columnist for Conatus News, Writer and Executive Administrator for Trusted Clothes, Interview Columnist for Basic Income Earth Network (BIEN), Councillor for the Athabasca University Student Union, Member of the Learning Analytics Research Group, writer for The Voice MagazineYour Political Party of BCProBCMarijuana Party of CanadaFresh Start Recovery CentreHarvest House Ministries, and Little Footprints Big Steps International Development Organization, Editor and Proofreader for Alfred Yi Zhang Photography, Community Journalist/Blogger for Gordon Neighbourhood House, Member-at-Large, Member of the Outreach Committee, the Finance & Fundraising Committee, and the Special Projects & Political Advocacy Committee, and Writer for Canadian Students for Sensible Drug Policy, Member of the Lifespan Cognition Psychology Lab and IMAGe Psychology Lab, Collaborator with Dr. Farhad Dastur in creation of the CriticalThinkingWiki, Board Member, and Foundation Volunteer Committee Member for the Fraser Valley Health Care Foundation, and Independent Landscaper.

He was a Francisco Ayala Scholar at the UCI Ethics Center, Member of the Psychometric Society Graduate Student Committee, Special Advisor and Writer for ECOSOC at NWMUN, Writer for TransplantFirstAcademy and ProActive Path, Member of AT-CURA Psychology Lab, Contributor for a student policy review, Vice President of Outreach for the Almas Jiwani Foundation, worked with Manahel Thabet on numerous initiatives, Student Member of the Ad–Hoc Executive Compensation Review Committee for the Athabasca University Student Union, Volunteer and Writer for British Columbia Psychological Association, Community Member of the KPU Choir (even performed with them alongside the Vancouver Symphony Orchestra), Delegate at Harvard World MUN, NWMUN, UBC MUN, and Long Beach Intercollegiate MUN, and Writer and Member of the Communications Committee for The PIPE UP Network.

Endnotes

[1] Four format points for the session article:
1. Bold text following “Scott Douglas Jacobsen:” or “Jacobsen:” is Scott Douglas Jacobsen & non-bold text following “Rick Rosner:” or “Rosner:” is Rick Rosner.
3. Footnotes & in-text citations in the interview & references after the interview.
4. This session article has been edited for clarity and readability.
For further information on the formatting guidelines incorporated into this document, please see the following documents:

Based on a work at www.in-sightjournal.com and www.rickrosner.org.

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen, Rick Rosner, and In-Sight Publishing 2012-2019. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen, Rick Rosner, and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content.

## Wednesday 15 May 2019

### Born to do Math 120 - Forms of Order: Calling All Photons, Final Boarding Call for Registration

Born to do Math 120 - Forms of Order: Calling All Photons, Final Boarding Call for Registration
Scott Douglas Jacobsen & Rick Rosner
May 15, 2019

[Beginning of recorded material]

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: This notion of non-base quantifiable phenomena in our consciousness, not just 1s and 0s, are registered in the universe in another way. That's an open question.

Rick Rosner: Kind of, we know that every little quantum event is registered by the universe. If you make sure that some events are not known and never known to the wider, universe, then they never register with the wider universe.

The events, though, and quantum events are such that they are shared with the rest of the universe. The question is if the quantum events have meaning to the overall information processing of the universe. I would argue that that would be a really tough row to hole... row to hoe [Laughing].

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Rosner: That's expecting way too much out of the computational universe. Instead, it might be better modelled to say that micro-events happen and the universe is built from microevents, but the overall state that the universe knows and computes is based on more macro phenomena.

Jacobsen: There is a sense of things being built from blocks. You give the Minecraft example in other interviews. If we take the micro world being built from little blocks, itty-bitty blocks, into a larger scale universe, then it becomes a sense of not just bottom-up construction, but top-down influence with the larger scale influence of all those little bits wrangling things together, like gravitational effects, where you have this agglomeration into things like galaxies.

Rosner: Yes.

Jacobsen: So, there could be another conversation around the feedback loops that the universe has with itself once it gets to sufficient levels of size for other forces in the universe to begin to wrangle things together.

Rosner: The universe functions in a Minecraft or a Lego block way, what is registers is the macro form of the clay, as it is being sculpted, but doesn't have a prescription that requires a strict recipe or set of instructions for putting together a sculpture in the same way that you might have if you were putting together a Lego sculpture of the Millennium Falcon.

If you buy the Millennium Falcon Lego kit, there is only one way to build it, according to their instructions. There may be workarounds. But you buy the kit and follow the instructions step-by-step. The two competent model builders who aren't being creative will end up with identical Millennium Falcons.

So, I am thinking doesn't scrutinize micro-events with that degree of awareness, as to whether each Millennium Falcon is perfect. The more the universe has a somebody looking at a clay sculpture level of awareness. When you look at a clay sculpture, it seems as if infinitely malleable.

But you see that it is the difference between analog and digital. It feels as if you can move clay into an infinity of positions, and you're not aware of the individual components of the clay, you're only aware of this gray stuff that appears to be homogenous and infinitely deformable as opposed to a digital construction medium.

In it, you're aware of all the blocks and how the blocks fit together. You're not aware of all the individual components of clay. It is this homogenous and amorphous stuff. You're aware of its larger sculptural forms.

If somebody has made it into the sculpture of a head, and if you're aware of the hair if the hair is really nice - and the years, but, you're not aware at what is going on at 10^22 orders of magnitude smaller than the overall sculpture - the individual atoms.

[End of recorded material]

Authors[1]

Rick Rosner

American Television Writer
RickRosner@Hotmail.Com
Rick Rosner

(Updated March 7, 2019)

According to semi-reputable sources, Rick Rosner has the world’s second-highest IQ. He earned 12 years of college credit in less than a year and graduated with the equivalent of 8 majors. He has received 8 Writers Guild Award and Emmy nominations, and was named 2013 North American Genius of the Year by The World Genius Registry.

He has written for Remote ControlCrank YankersThe Man ShowThe EmmysThe Grammys, and Jimmy Kimmel Live!. He worked as a bouncer, a nude art model, a roller-skating waiter, and a stripper. In a television commercial, Domino’s Pizza named him the "World’s Smartest Man." The commercial was taken off the air after Subway sandwiches issued a cease-and-desist. He was named "Best Bouncer" in the Denver Area, Colorado, by Westwood Magazine.

Rosner spent much of the late Disco Era as an undercover high school student. In addition, he spent 25 years as a bar bouncer and American fake ID-catcher, and 25+ years as a stripper, and nearly 30 years as a writer for more than 2,500 hours of network television. He came in second or lost on Jeopardy!, sued Who Wants to Be a Millionaire over a flawed question and lost the lawsuit. He won one game and lost one game on Are You Smarter Than a Drunk Person? (He was drunk). Finally, he spent 37+ years working on a time invariant variation of the Big Bang Theory.

Currently, Rosner sits tweeting in a bathrobe (winter) or a towel (summer). He lives in Los Angeles, California with his wife, dog, and goldfish. He and his wife have a daughter. You can send him money or questions at LanceversusRick@Gmail.Com, or a direct message via Twitter, or find him on LinkedIn, or see him on YouTube.

Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Editor-in-Chief, In-Sight Publishing
Scott.D.Jacobsen@Gmail.Com
In-Sight Publishing

(Updated September 28, 2016)

Scott Douglas Jacobsen founded In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal and In-Sight Publishing. He authored/co-authored some e-books, free or low-cost. If you want to contact Scott: Scott.D.Jacobsen@Gmail.com.

He is a Moral Courage Webmaster and Outreach Specialist (Fall, 2016) at the UCI Interdisciplinary Center for the Scientific Study of Ethics and Morality (Ethics Center), Interview Columnist for Conatus News, Writer and Executive Administrator for Trusted Clothes, Interview Columnist for Basic Income Earth Network (BIEN), Councillor for the Athabasca University Student Union, Member of the Learning Analytics Research Group, writer for The Voice MagazineYour Political Party of BCProBCMarijuana Party of CanadaFresh Start Recovery CentreHarvest House Ministries, and Little Footprints Big Steps International Development Organization, Editor and Proofreader for Alfred Yi Zhang Photography, Community Journalist/Blogger for Gordon Neighbourhood House, Member-at-Large, Member of the Outreach Committee, the Finance & Fundraising Committee, and the Special Projects & Political Advocacy Committee, and Writer for Canadian Students for Sensible Drug Policy, Member of the Lifespan Cognition Psychology Lab and IMAGe Psychology Lab, Collaborator with Dr. Farhad Dastur in creation of the CriticalThinkingWiki, Board Member, and Foundation Volunteer Committee Member for the Fraser Valley Health Care Foundation, and Independent Landscaper.

He was a Francisco Ayala Scholar at the UCI Ethics Center, Member of the Psychometric Society Graduate Student Committee, Special Advisor and Writer for ECOSOC at NWMUN, Writer for TransplantFirstAcademy and ProActive Path, Member of AT-CURA Psychology Lab, Contributor for a student policy review, Vice President of Outreach for the Almas Jiwani Foundation, worked with Manahel Thabet on numerous initiatives, Student Member of the Ad–Hoc Executive Compensation Review Committee for the Athabasca University Student Union, Volunteer and Writer for British Columbia Psychological Association, Community Member of the KPU Choir (even performed with them alongside the Vancouver Symphony Orchestra), Delegate at Harvard World MUN, NWMUN, UBC MUN, and Long Beach Intercollegiate MUN, and Writer and Member of the Communications Committee for The PIPE UP Network.

Endnotes

[1] Four format points for the session article:
1. Bold text following “Scott Douglas Jacobsen:” or “Jacobsen:” is Scott Douglas Jacobsen & non-bold text following “Rick Rosner:” or “Rosner:” is Rick Rosner.
3. Footnotes & in-text citations in the interview & references after the interview.
4. This session article has been edited for clarity and readability.
For further information on the formatting guidelines incorporated into this document, please see the following documents:

Based on a work at www.in-sightjournal.com and www.rickrosner.org.

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen, Rick Rosner, and In-Sight Publishing 2012-2019. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen, Rick Rosner, and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content.

## Wednesday 8 May 2019

### Born to do Math 119 - Forms of Order: No-Nothing, Defaulting to Something

Born to do Math 119 - Forms of Order: No-Nothing Three-Point Shots, Defaulting to Something
Scott Douglas Jacobsen & Rick Rosner
May 8, 2019

[Beginning of recorded material]

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: The whole argument is "why is there something rather than nothing?" But the real argument is "why wouldn't there be something?" [Laughing]

Rick Rosner: But then we go back to another form of that question, can the universe exist without a support structure? The simplest analogy that comes immediately to mind is the score of a basketball game as seen on a scoreboard.

The rules of basketball are consistent. So, you see or you can follow the basketball game by following the scoreboard. It makes sense. It is not as exciting as actually watching the game. I am thinking of the old scoreboard that doesn't show video. It just has numbers and lights.

Jacobsen: Red bulbs.

Rosner: Right. That's a perfectly consistent system within the rules of basketball. But you can't have that system. Either the series of scores on a scoreboard throughout a game or the scoreboard, it implies a scoreboard is there to keep score and that there is a game that the scoreboard reflects.

You can't really have the scores in just a free floating way. Unless, there is some kind of structure to provide the scores. It is a terrible analogy. Because you have both the support structures that include the game being played and the scoreboard that shows you the score of the game at various moments.

Also, your consciousness that registers what is going on. But still, the idea that there would be this free floating and consistent series of scores rolling without forms of external support or external correlates that those scores reflect doesn't make sense.

So, if the matter in our universe is some sort of thing of the universe keeping score, then that implies there are some structures that pertain to and are relevant to the score. The universe, itself, at any given moment is a score.

Does there have to be a scoreboard to show the score to physically support it? Does there have to be a reality that is reflected in the score? A game that is being played. Both of which refer to this world that is external to the universe.

But the universe is a model of or an information processing model in the same way our mind is a model of the world around us.

Jacobsen: Take some of the aforementioned terms, the idea of 3D spatial relations, the idea of colour, the idea of fairness, with in-built systems.

Rosner: Yes. Anyhow, that is a larger question than we're discussing now.

Jacobsen: It is important, though.

Rosner: Yes, it is one of the central questions. But right now, we want to find out if micro events, e.g., whether or not I have toe fungus, and I do...

Jacobsen: Thanks.

Rosner: Mmhmm.

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Rosner: ...have some informational meaning to the overall computational structure that is the universe. It is a computational structure. Even if, it is supported externally. To put it in scoreboard terms, do my fungus toenails register on the scoreboard that is the universe?

Jacobsen: You don't mean the casual way people are imagining this. I don't mean the gross way they're imagining this. I mean registering via photons hitting an apparatus and being registered on an information processor, even pain registering generally.

Rosner: The state of my toenails is definitely registered by the wider universe. There is a model of my foot right here in the room we're sitting. But that model is 8 years old. It is the actual size of my foot. It might be slightly bigger, as it is made out of silicon. I forget if it ends up bigger or slightly smaller.

Jacobsen: Why is your second toe so big?

Rosner: That's just the way my toes came out. That's the reason that model exists because my foot is grotesque.

Jacobsen: It looks like your second toe and your big toe went "hey, let's trade places for this life."

Rosner: [Laughing] It is horrifying.

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Rosner: That's why somebody decided to make a model of it and turn it into an ashtray and hand it over to my boss.

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Rosner: My boss had had enough of it after 8 years, 10 years and said, "Do you want your foot back?" I am like, "Hell, yeah." To some extent, the state of my toe is reflective in the outside world. But is it reflected in the ongoing game that is the universe's computations?

That is, the scoreboard of a basketball game, an old school scoreboard, does not tell you whether one player shoved another player, one player for one reason gets a boner in stressful situations like basketball games, where he is not only trying to play basketball but also hoping that people don't see that he gets a boner.

The scoreboard only represents the most general information about the game, like the score and the number of fouls. It doesn't reflect the minutiae. That there is a girl in the audience that has a crush on the center. Or the school colours that are there.

The question is if the minutiae of our lives have informational meaning to the universe itself.

[End of recorded material]

Authors[1]

Rick Rosner

American Television Writer
RickRosner@Hotmail.Com
Rick Rosner

(Updated March 7, 2019)

According to semi-reputable sources, Rick Rosner has the world’s second-highest IQ. He earned 12 years of college credit in less than a year and graduated with the equivalent of 8 majors. He has received 8 Writers Guild Award and Emmy nominations, and was named 2013 North American Genius of the Year by The World Genius Registry.

He has written for Remote ControlCrank YankersThe Man ShowThe EmmysThe Grammys, and Jimmy Kimmel Live!. He worked as a bouncer, a nude art model, a roller-skating waiter, and a stripper. In a television commercial, Domino’s Pizza named him the "World’s Smartest Man." The commercial was taken off the air after Subway sandwiches issued a cease-and-desist. He was named "Best Bouncer" in the Denver Area, Colorado, by Westwood Magazine.

Rosner spent much of the late Disco Era as an undercover high school student. In addition, he spent 25 years as a bar bouncer and American fake ID-catcher, and 25+ years as a stripper, and nearly 30 years as a writer for more than 2,500 hours of network television. He came in second or lost on Jeopardy!, sued Who Wants to Be a Millionaire over a flawed question and lost the lawsuit. He won one game and lost one game on Are You Smarter Than a Drunk Person? (He was drunk). Finally, he spent 37+ years working on a time invariant variation of the Big Bang Theory.

Currently, Rosner sits tweeting in a bathrobe (winter) or a towel (summer). He lives in Los Angeles, California with his wife, dog, and goldfish. He and his wife have a daughter. You can send him money or questions at LanceversusRick@Gmail.Com, or a direct message via Twitter, or find him on LinkedIn, or see him on YouTube.

Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Editor-in-Chief, In-Sight Publishing
Scott.D.Jacobsen@Gmail.Com
In-Sight Publishing

(Updated September 28, 2016)

Scott Douglas Jacobsen founded In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal and In-Sight Publishing. He authored/co-authored some e-books, free or low-cost. If you want to contact Scott: Scott.D.Jacobsen@Gmail.com.

He is a Moral Courage Webmaster and Outreach Specialist (Fall, 2016) at the UCI Interdisciplinary Center for the Scientific Study of Ethics and Morality (Ethics Center), Interview Columnist for Conatus News, Writer and Executive Administrator for Trusted Clothes, Interview Columnist for Basic Income Earth Network (BIEN), Councillor for the Athabasca University Student Union, Member of the Learning Analytics Research Group, writer for The Voice MagazineYour Political Party of BCProBCMarijuana Party of CanadaFresh Start Recovery CentreHarvest House Ministries, and Little Footprints Big Steps International Development Organization, Editor and Proofreader for Alfred Yi Zhang Photography, Community Journalist/Blogger for Gordon Neighbourhood House, Member-at-Large, Member of the Outreach Committee, the Finance & Fundraising Committee, and the Special Projects & Political Advocacy Committee, and Writer for Canadian Students for Sensible Drug Policy, Member of the Lifespan Cognition Psychology Lab and IMAGe Psychology Lab, Collaborator with Dr. Farhad Dastur in creation of the CriticalThinkingWiki, Board Member, and Foundation Volunteer Committee Member for the Fraser Valley Health Care Foundation, and Independent Landscaper.

He was a Francisco Ayala Scholar at the UCI Ethics Center, Member of the Psychometric Society Graduate Student Committee, Special Advisor and Writer for ECOSOC at NWMUN, Writer for TransplantFirstAcademy and ProActive Path, Member of AT-CURA Psychology Lab, Contributor for a student policy review, Vice President of Outreach for the Almas Jiwani Foundation, worked with Manahel Thabet on numerous initiatives, Student Member of the Ad–Hoc Executive Compensation Review Committee for the Athabasca University Student Union, Volunteer and Writer for British Columbia Psychological Association, Community Member of the KPU Choir (even performed with them alongside the Vancouver Symphony Orchestra), Delegate at Harvard World MUN, NWMUN, UBC MUN, and Long Beach Intercollegiate MUN, and Writer and Member of the Communications Committee for The PIPE UP Network.

Endnotes

[1] Four format points for the session article:
1. Bold text following “Scott Douglas Jacobsen:” or “Jacobsen:” is Scott Douglas Jacobsen & non-bold text following “Rick Rosner:” or “Rosner:” is Rick Rosner.
3. Footnotes & in-text citations in the interview & references after the interview.
4. This session article has been edited for clarity and readability.
For further information on the formatting guidelines incorporated into this document, please see the following documents:

Based on a work at www.in-sightjournal.com and www.rickrosner.org.

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen, Rick Rosner, and In-Sight Publishing 2012-2019. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen, Rick Rosner, and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content.

## Wednesday 1 May 2019

### Born to do Math 118 - Forms of Order: Leaps and Bounds in the Bushes

Born to do Math 118 - Forms of Order: Leaps and Bounds in the Bushes
Scott Douglas Jacobsen & Rick Rosner
May 1, 2019

[Beginning of recorded material]

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: With respect to the question from a few moments ago, the questions would be human beings and relatively similar sized organisms that have kind of broad based broad band sharing of information to make a mind and then applying this to the large scale structure of the universe to imply an armature.

For myself, I would have more question marks about what are the pinnings down about making that extension from this implies consciousness for human beings, say, to this implies consciousness to the universe, say.

For myself, I am agreeing on the general claims. I am agreeing on large scale information processing. The universe appears to be doing a lot of information exchange. There are various ways of modelling this. But then, the making the extension to the armature.

I am not saying it is an illogical leap. What I am saying the number of hidden premises or puzzle pieces face down are many.

Rick Rosner: Okay, the main question as to whether there is an armature or a structure that is necessary to support the information that the universe is made of. That boils down to the question, "Does pure information exist without external support?"

It is not something that people have done a lot of thinking about because it is not an immediately apparent thing. It is not a question that arises easily outside or beyond the idea of informational cosmology and other theories of the universe being information.

Even within quantum physics, which treats the universe as information, or little parts of it as information.

Jacobsen: As an aside, it is the most tested theory with empirical evidence in the history of science.

Rosner: Quantum mechanics, that makes sense. It is easy to do quantum experiments or look at stuff already done, and see that it agrees with what quantum mechanics would predict about it. You can take old experiments and old phenomena.

Not everything has to be a new experiment, you can take old things that you know and then say, "How does this agree or not agree with quantum mechanics?" I would say that given the small or modest scale of quantum mechanics.

There is probably a lot of confirming experiments and data, and phenomena, compared to relativity. In that, to do experiments with relativity, you need something moving close to the speed of light. Some stuff does, but most stuff doesn't.

So, you need to look at cosmic ray evidence like muons, which move 99% of the speed of light, as they are shot out of the Sun rather than out of a cyclotron and aren't moving very fast. It would make sense that there would be a lot of evidence for quantum mechanics.

Jacobsen: Within that long history of digital physics, it is not the mainstream, but, certainly, it is not fringe.

Rosner: The universe as information?

Jacobsen: The universe as information.

Rosner: But I would say that within the realm of all physics and quantum mechanics, and the universe is information; the question of whether the universe is enough to support itself is not a question that has arisen.

Because, why wouldn't the universe be enough to support itself? For instance, in quantum mechanics, there is a fuzziness, which arises due to the universe having a finite amount of information to define itself and its constituent parts.

The universe is inherently incomplete and fuzzy. But there is an argument or a deep assumption based on that fuzziness that - wow - the universe cannot be precisely defined, but given the constituents of the universe; the universe defines itself to the extent that it can, which is to a very fine degree.

It down to one part in, maybe, 10^-34th or near that. People like to argue that without a creator. How can the universe exist because you start with nothing? Yet, we have everything. I disagree with the idea that we have nothing. That nothing is the default state of existence.

Jacobsen: That goes against 2,000 years of philosophical history.

Rosner: Yes.

[End of recorded material]

Authors[1]

Rick Rosner

American Television Writer
RickRosner@Hotmail.Com
Rick Rosner

(Updated March 7, 2019)

According to semi-reputable sources, Rick Rosner has the world’s second-highest IQ. He earned 12 years of college credit in less than a year and graduated with the equivalent of 8 majors. He has received 8 Writers Guild Award and Emmy nominations, and was named 2013 North American Genius of the Year by The World Genius Registry.

He has written for Remote ControlCrank YankersThe Man ShowThe EmmysThe Grammys, and Jimmy Kimmel Live!. He worked as a bouncer, a nude art model, a roller-skating waiter, and a stripper. In a television commercial, Domino’s Pizza named him the "World’s Smartest Man." The commercial was taken off the air after Subway sandwiches issued a cease-and-desist. He was named "Best Bouncer" in the Denver Area, Colorado, by Westwood Magazine.

Rosner spent much of the late Disco Era as an undercover high school student. In addition, he spent 25 years as a bar bouncer and American fake ID-catcher, and 25+ years as a stripper, and nearly 30 years as a writer for more than 2,500 hours of network television. He came in second or lost on Jeopardy!, sued Who Wants to Be a Millionaire over a flawed question and lost the lawsuit. He won one game and lost one game on Are You Smarter Than a Drunk Person? (He was drunk). Finally, he spent 37+ years working on a time invariant variation of the Big Bang Theory.

Currently, Rosner sits tweeting in a bathrobe (winter) or a towel (summer). He lives in Los Angeles, California with his wife, dog, and goldfish. He and his wife have a daughter. You can send him money or questions at LanceversusRick@Gmail.Com, or a direct message via Twitter, or find him on LinkedIn, or see him on YouTube.

Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Editor-in-Chief, In-Sight Publishing
Scott.D.Jacobsen@Gmail.Com
In-Sight Publishing

(Updated September 28, 2016)

Scott Douglas Jacobsen founded In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal and In-Sight Publishing. He authored/co-authored some e-books, free or low-cost. If you want to contact Scott: Scott.D.Jacobsen@Gmail.com, Scott.Jacobsen@TrustedClothes.Com, Scott@ConatusNews.Com, scott.jacobsen@probc.ca, Scott@Karmik.Ca, or SJacobsen@AlmasJiwaniFoundation.Org.

He is a Moral Courage Webmaster and Outreach Specialist (Fall, 2016) at the UCI Interdisciplinary Center for the Scientific Study of Ethics and Morality (Ethics Center), Interview Columnist for Conatus News, Writer and Executive Administrator for Trusted Clothes, Interview Columnist for Basic Income Earth Network (BIEN), Councillor for the Athabasca University Student Union, Member of the Learning Analytics Research Group, writer for The Voice MagazineYour Political Party of BCProBCMarijuana Party of CanadaFresh Start Recovery CentreHarvest House Ministries, and Little Footprints Big Steps International Development Organization, Editor and Proofreader for Alfred Yi Zhang Photography, Community Journalist/Blogger for Gordon Neighbourhood House, Member-at-Large, Member of the Outreach Committee, the Finance & Fundraising Committee, and the Special Projects & Political Advocacy Committee, and Writer for Canadian Students for Sensible Drug Policy, Member of the Lifespan Cognition Psychology Lab and IMAGe Psychology Lab, Collaborator with Dr. Farhad Dastur in creation of the CriticalThinkingWiki, Board Member, and Foundation Volunteer Committee Member for the Fraser Valley Health Care Foundation, and Independent Landscaper.

He was a Francisco Ayala Scholar at the UCI Ethics Center, Member of the Psychometric Society Graduate Student Committee, Special Advisor and Writer for ECOSOC at NWMUN, Writer for TransplantFirstAcademy and ProActive Path, Member of AT-CURA Psychology Lab, Contributor for a student policy review, Vice President of Outreach for the Almas Jiwani Foundation, worked with Manahel Thabet on numerous initiatives, Student Member of the Ad–Hoc Executive Compensation Review Committee for the Athabasca University Student Union, Volunteer and Writer for British Columbia Psychological Association, Community Member of the KPU Choir (even performed with them alongside the Vancouver Symphony Orchestra), Delegate at Harvard World MUN, NWMUN, UBC MUN, and Long Beach Intercollegiate MUN, and Writer and Member of the Communications Committee for The PIPE UP Network.

Endnotes

[1] Four format points for the session article:
1. Bold text following “Scott Douglas Jacobsen:” or “Jacobsen:” is Scott Douglas Jacobsen & non-bold text following “Rick Rosner:” or “Rosner:” is Rick Rosner.
3. Footnotes & in-text citations in the interview & references after the interview.
4. This session article has been edited for clarity and readability.
For further information on the formatting guidelines incorporated into this document, please see the following documents:

Based on a work at www.in-sightjournal.com and www.rickrosner.org.