Born to do Math 118 - Forms of Order: Leaps and Bounds in the Bushes
Scott Douglas Jacobsen & Rick Rosner
May 1, 2019
[Beginning of recorded material]
Scott Douglas Jacobsen: With respect to the question from a few moments ago, the questions would be human beings and relatively similar sized organisms that have kind of broad based broad band sharing of information to make a mind and then applying this to the large scale structure of the universe to imply an armature.
For myself, I would have more question marks about what are the pinnings down about making that extension from this implies consciousness for human beings, say, to this implies consciousness to the universe, say.
For myself, I am agreeing on the general claims. I am agreeing on large scale information processing. The universe appears to be doing a lot of information exchange. There are various ways of modelling this. But then, the making the extension to the armature.
I am not saying it is an illogical leap. What I am saying the number of hidden premises or puzzle pieces face down are many.
Rick Rosner: Okay, the main question as to whether there is an armature or a structure that is necessary to support the information that the universe is made of. That boils down to the question, "Does pure information exist without external support?"
It is not something that people have done a lot of thinking about because it is not an immediately apparent thing. It is not a question that arises easily outside or beyond the idea of informational cosmology and other theories of the universe being information.
Even within quantum physics, which treats the universe as information, or little parts of it as information.
Jacobsen: As an aside, it is the most tested theory with empirical evidence in the history of science.
Rosner: Quantum mechanics, that makes sense. It is easy to do quantum experiments or look at stuff already done, and see that it agrees with what quantum mechanics would predict about it. You can take old experiments and old phenomena.
Not everything has to be a new experiment, you can take old things that you know and then say, "How does this agree or not agree with quantum mechanics?" I would say that given the small or modest scale of quantum mechanics.
There is probably a lot of confirming experiments and data, and phenomena, compared to relativity. In that, to do experiments with relativity, you need something moving close to the speed of light. Some stuff does, but most stuff doesn't.
So, you need to look at cosmic ray evidence like muons, which move 99% of the speed of light, as they are shot out of the Sun rather than out of a cyclotron and aren't moving very fast. It would make sense that there would be a lot of evidence for quantum mechanics.
Jacobsen: Within that long history of digital physics, it is not the mainstream, but, certainly, it is not fringe.
Rosner: The universe as information?
Jacobsen: The universe as information.
Rosner: But I would say that within the realm of all physics and quantum mechanics, and the universe is information; the question of whether the universe is enough to support itself is not a question that has arisen.
Because, why wouldn't the universe be enough to support itself? For instance, in quantum mechanics, there is a fuzziness, which arises due to the universe having a finite amount of information to define itself and its constituent parts.
The universe is inherently incomplete and fuzzy. But there is an argument or a deep assumption based on that fuzziness that - wow - the universe cannot be precisely defined, but given the constituents of the universe; the universe defines itself to the extent that it can, which is to a very fine degree.
It down to one part in, maybe, 10^-34th or near that. People like to argue that without a creator. How can the universe exist because you start with nothing? Yet, we have everything. I disagree with the idea that we have nothing. That nothing is the default state of existence.
Jacobsen: That goes against 2,000 years of philosophical history.
Rosner: Yes.
For myself, I would have more question marks about what are the pinnings down about making that extension from this implies consciousness for human beings, say, to this implies consciousness to the universe, say.
For myself, I am agreeing on the general claims. I am agreeing on large scale information processing. The universe appears to be doing a lot of information exchange. There are various ways of modelling this. But then, the making the extension to the armature.
I am not saying it is an illogical leap. What I am saying the number of hidden premises or puzzle pieces face down are many.
Rick Rosner: Okay, the main question as to whether there is an armature or a structure that is necessary to support the information that the universe is made of. That boils down to the question, "Does pure information exist without external support?"
It is not something that people have done a lot of thinking about because it is not an immediately apparent thing. It is not a question that arises easily outside or beyond the idea of informational cosmology and other theories of the universe being information.
Even within quantum physics, which treats the universe as information, or little parts of it as information.
Jacobsen: As an aside, it is the most tested theory with empirical evidence in the history of science.
Rosner: Quantum mechanics, that makes sense. It is easy to do quantum experiments or look at stuff already done, and see that it agrees with what quantum mechanics would predict about it. You can take old experiments and old phenomena.
Not everything has to be a new experiment, you can take old things that you know and then say, "How does this agree or not agree with quantum mechanics?" I would say that given the small or modest scale of quantum mechanics.
There is probably a lot of confirming experiments and data, and phenomena, compared to relativity. In that, to do experiments with relativity, you need something moving close to the speed of light. Some stuff does, but most stuff doesn't.
So, you need to look at cosmic ray evidence like muons, which move 99% of the speed of light, as they are shot out of the Sun rather than out of a cyclotron and aren't moving very fast. It would make sense that there would be a lot of evidence for quantum mechanics.
Jacobsen: Within that long history of digital physics, it is not the mainstream, but, certainly, it is not fringe.
Rosner: The universe as information?
Jacobsen: The universe as information.
Rosner: But I would say that within the realm of all physics and quantum mechanics, and the universe is information; the question of whether the universe is enough to support itself is not a question that has arisen.
Because, why wouldn't the universe be enough to support itself? For instance, in quantum mechanics, there is a fuzziness, which arises due to the universe having a finite amount of information to define itself and its constituent parts.
The universe is inherently incomplete and fuzzy. But there is an argument or a deep assumption based on that fuzziness that - wow - the universe cannot be precisely defined, but given the constituents of the universe; the universe defines itself to the extent that it can, which is to a very fine degree.
It down to one part in, maybe, 10^-34th or near that. People like to argue that without a creator. How can the universe exist because you start with nothing? Yet, we have everything. I disagree with the idea that we have nothing. That nothing is the default state of existence.
Jacobsen: That goes against 2,000 years of philosophical history.
Rosner: Yes.
[End of recorded material]
Authors[1]
Rick Rosner
American Television Writer
RickRosner@Hotmail.Com
Rick Rosner
(Updated March 7, 2019)
According to semi-reputable sources, Rick Rosner has the world’s second-highest IQ. He earned 12 years of college credit in less than a year and graduated with the equivalent of 8 majors. He has received 8 Writers Guild Award and Emmy nominations, and was named 2013 North American Genius of the Year by The World Genius Registry.
He has written for Remote Control, Crank Yankers, The Man Show, The Emmys, The Grammys, and Jimmy Kimmel Live!. He worked as a bouncer, a nude art model, a roller-skating waiter, and a stripper. In a television commercial, Domino’s Pizza named him the "World’s Smartest Man." The commercial was taken off the air after Subway sandwiches issued a cease-and-desist. He was named "Best Bouncer" in the Denver Area, Colorado, by Westwood Magazine.
Rosner spent much of the late Disco Era as an undercover high school student. In addition, he spent 25 years as a bar bouncer and American fake ID-catcher, and 25+ years as a stripper, and nearly 30 years as a writer for more than 2,500 hours of network television. He came in second or lost on Jeopardy!, sued Who Wants to Be a Millionaire over a flawed question and lost the lawsuit. He won one game and lost one game on Are You Smarter Than a Drunk Person? (He was drunk). Finally, he spent 37+ years working on a time invariant variation of the Big Bang Theory.
Currently, Rosner sits tweeting in a bathrobe (winter) or a towel (summer). He lives in Los Angeles, California with his wife, dog, and goldfish. He and his wife have a daughter. You can send him money or questions at LanceversusRick@Gmail.Com, or a direct message via Twitter, or find him on LinkedIn, or see him on YouTube.
Scott Douglas Jacobsen
Editor-in-Chief, In-Sight Publishing
Scott.D.Jacobsen@Gmail.Com
In-Sight Publishing
(Updated September 28, 2016)
Scott Douglas Jacobsen founded In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal and In-Sight Publishing. He authored/co-authored some e-books, free or low-cost. If you want to contact Scott: Scott.D.Jacobsen@Gmail.com, Scott.Jacobsen@TrustedClothes.Com, Scott@ConatusNews.Com, scott.jacobsen@probc.ca, Scott@Karmik.Ca, or SJacobsen@AlmasJiwaniFoundation.Org.
He is a Moral Courage Webmaster and Outreach Specialist (Fall, 2016) at the UCI Interdisciplinary Center for the Scientific Study of Ethics and Morality (Ethics Center), Interview Columnist for Conatus News, Writer and Executive Administrator for Trusted Clothes, Interview Columnist for Basic Income Earth Network (BIEN), Councillor for the Athabasca University Student Union, Member of the Learning Analytics Research Group, writer for The Voice Magazine, Your Political Party of BC, ProBC, Marijuana Party of Canada, Fresh Start Recovery Centre, Harvest House Ministries, and Little Footprints Big Steps International Development Organization, Editor and Proofreader for Alfred Yi Zhang Photography, Community Journalist/Blogger for Gordon Neighbourhood House, Member-at-Large, Member of the Outreach Committee, the Finance & Fundraising Committee, and the Special Projects & Political Advocacy Committee, and Writer for Canadian Students for Sensible Drug Policy, Member of the Lifespan Cognition Psychology Lab and IMAGe Psychology Lab, Collaborator with Dr. Farhad Dastur in creation of the CriticalThinkingWiki, Board Member, and Foundation Volunteer Committee Member for the Fraser Valley Health Care Foundation, and Independent Landscaper.
He was a Francisco Ayala Scholar at the UCI Ethics Center, Member of the Psychometric Society Graduate Student Committee, Special Advisor and Writer for ECOSOC at NWMUN, Writer for TransplantFirstAcademy and ProActive Path, Member of AT-CURA Psychology Lab, Contributor for a student policy review, Vice President of Outreach for the Almas Jiwani Foundation, worked with Manahel Thabet on numerous initiatives, Student Member of the Ad–Hoc Executive Compensation Review Committee for the Athabasca University Student Union, Volunteer and Writer for British Columbia Psychological Association, Community Member of the KPU Choir (even performed with them alongside the Vancouver Symphony Orchestra), Delegate at Harvard World MUN, NWMUN, UBC MUN, and Long Beach Intercollegiate MUN, and Writer and Member of the Communications Committee for The PIPE UP Network.
He published in American Enterprise Institute, Annaborgia, Conatus News, Earth Skin & Eden, Fresh Start Recovery Centre, Gordon Neighbourhood House, Huffington Post, In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, Jolly Dragons, Kwantlen Polytechnic University Psychology Department, La Petite Mort, Learning Analytics Research Group, Lifespan Cognition Psychology Lab, Lost in Samara, Marijuana Party of Canada, MomMandy, Noesis: The Journal of the Mega Society, Piece of Mind, Production Mode, Synapse, TeenFinancial, The Peak, The Ubyssey, The Voice Magazine, Transformative Dialogues, Treasure Box Kids, Trusted Clothes.
Endnotes
- Bold text following “Scott Douglas Jacobsen:” or “Jacobsen:” is Scott Douglas Jacobsen & non-bold text following “Rick Rosner:” or “Rosner:” is Rick Rosner.
- Session article conducted, transcribed, edited, formatted, and published by Scott.
- Footnotes & in-text citations in the interview & references after the interview.
- This session article has been edited for clarity and readability.
For further information on the formatting guidelines incorporated into this document, please see the following documents:
- American Psychological Association. (2010). Citation Guide: APA. Retrieved from http://www.lib.sfu.ca/system/files/28281/APA6CitationGuideSFUv3.pdf.
- Humble, A. (n.d.). Guide to Transcribing. Retrieved from http://www.msvu.ca/site/media/msvu/Transcription%20Guide.pdf.
License and Copyright
License
In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.
Based on a work at www.in-sightjournal.com and www.rickrosner.org.
Copyright
© Scott Douglas Jacobsen, Rick Rosner, and In-Sight Publishing 2012-2019. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen, Rick Rosner, and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content.
No comments:
Post a Comment