Friday, 8 February 2019

Born to do Math 107 - Human Beings as Mathematical Structures (4)

Born to do Math 107 - Human Beings as Mathematical Structures (4)
Scott Douglas Jacobsen & Rick Rosner
February 8, 2019

[Beginning of recorded material]

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Let's return to the original line of thinking of human beings as mathematical structures, we have a certain type of math in its own dynamics that is different than simply the physical mechanics of the snow falling, rain falling, ripples across the water. How does a mathematical structure differ in us compared to these others?

Rick Rosner: Everything has to be able to exist, to exist. Everything has to have rules of self-consistency, which means that you've got basic structures and patterns that emerge all over the place. They are easy. They are basic. They have easy self-consistency.

If you look at philosophizing, everything boils down to the simple principles. Biology is boiled down to physics, and so can chemistry. It doesn't mean that there is no function fo chemistry or biology. Sometimes, it is more convenient to discuss them us as large and complicated entities.

When you talk evolutionary biology, zoology, the units in zoology are animals. You have to way out of your way to talk about animals as being built up from fundamental and subatomic particles. Philosophy, the hard sciences, the soft sciences, there is a utility in taking the right context to talk about those objects and subjects that fit into the umbrella of scale.

You can boil aesthetics down to basic principles, which we have talked about. The search for the preservation of order. It might be better to talk about aesthetics on its own terms. You may know that beauty may be built from evolutionary principles.

We think something is beautiful because of biases that have been evolved into us. We don't need that kind of scaffolding or foundation or disclaimer for a possible discussion of aesthetics. You can discuss beautiful forms as themselves, as increasing beauty going all the way back primates on the Savannah.

It is similar to all the other areas of philosophy, or simply most of them. There may be some that are sufficiently specialized to not be. Similarly, there will be emerging areas of philosophy with the most pertinent one coming up being the ethics of dealing with powerful information processing entities that are not entirely human, or merged humans. It is humans merging with technology.

At the most pragmatic level, sometime in the next 100 years; someone will move into a non-human body, into a body that is not even human. Someone may go to court. Even though, they do not live in a human body; they still have the rights that they had when they were in a human body.

Another person will go to court to claim that AI should be able to marry a person or permit the AI to inherit stuff. That the AI person should have rights. That is a whole new area of ethics and philosophy.

That is a looking upward development of ethics with humans and the things that will eventually supersede humans. But then there is the question about the things superseding humans. There will need to be a philosophy for them on how to treat us, who will be those things inferiors.

You need the philosophy for humans to do things and for the things that we create, which will, eventually, be in charge. One is decency in both directions. Not even just decency, but it is also defining what entities own.

It is clear what an individual consciousness is now. But that will be the case 150 years from now, when consciousnesses can be merged, budded off, and there will be all sorts of different and fleeting existences of information processing entities.

It will be complicated to assign rights to those things. Having to develop philosophies with new types of consciousnesses, there will be the economics of it, of trying to figure out the economics in which information is increasingly the most valuable thing; information plus the knowledge that makes that information durable.

[End of recorded material]


Rick Rosner
American Television Writer
Rick Rosner

According to semi-reputable sources, Rick Rosner has the world’s second-highest IQ. He earned 12 years of college credit in less than a year and graduated with the equivalent of 8 majors. He has received 8 Writer’s Guild Award and Emmy nominations, and was named 2013 North American Genius of the Year by The World Genius Registry.

He has written for Remote Control, Crank Yankers, The Man Show, The Emmy Awards, The Grammy Awards, and Jimmy Kimmel Live!. He has also worked as a stripper, a bouncer, a roller-skating waiter, and a nude model. In a TV commercial, Domino’s Pizza named him the World’s Smartest Man. He was also named Best Bouncer in the Denver Area by Westwood Magazine.

He spent the disco era as an undercover high school student. 25 years as a bar bouncer, American fake ID-catcher, 25+ years as a stripper, and nude art model, and nearly 30 years as a writer for more than 2,500 hours of network television. He lost on Jeopardy!, sued Who Wants to Be a Millionaire over a bad question, and lost the lawsuit. He spent 35+ years on a modified version of Big Bang Theory. Now, he mostly sits around tweeting in a towel. He lives in Los Angeles, California with his wife and daughter.

You can send an email or a direct message via Twitter, or find him on LinkedIn, or see him on YouTube.

Scott Douglas Jacobsen
Editor-in-Chief, In-Sight Publishing
In-Sight Publishing

(Updated September 28, 2016)

Scott Douglas Jacobsen founded In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal and In-Sight Publishing. He authored/co-authored some e-books, free or low-cost. If you want to contact Scott:, Scott.Jacobsen@TrustedClothes.Com, Scott@ConatusNews.Com,, Scott@Karmik.Ca, or SJacobsen@AlmasJiwaniFoundation.Org.

He is a Moral Courage Webmaster and Outreach Specialist (Fall, 2016) at the UCI Interdisciplinary Center for the Scientific Study of Ethics and Morality (Ethics Center), Interview Columnist for Conatus News, Writer and Executive Administrator for Trusted Clothes, Interview Columnist for Basic Income Earth Network (BIEN), Chair of Social Media for the Almas Jiwani Foundation, Councillor for the Athabasca University Student Union, Member of the Learning Analytics Research Group, writer for The Voice MagazineYour Political Party of BCProBCMarijuana Party of CanadaFresh Start Recovery CentreHarvest House Ministries, and Little Footprints Big Steps International Development Organization, Editor and Proofreader for Alfred Yi Zhang Photography, Community Journalist/Blogger for Gordon Neighbourhood House, Member-at-Large, Member of the Outreach Committee, the Finance & Fundraising Committee, and the Special Projects & Political Advocacy Committee, and Writer for Canadian Students for Sensible Drug Policy, Member of the Lifespan Cognition Psychology Lab and IMAGe Psychology Lab, Collaborator with Dr. Farhad Dastur in creation of the CriticalThinkingWiki, Board Member, and Foundation Volunteer Committee Member for the Fraser Valley Health Care Foundation, and Independent Landscaper.

He was a Francisco Ayala Scholar at the UCI Ethics Center, Member of the Psychometric Society Graduate Student Committee, Special Advisor and Writer for ECOSOC at NWMUN, Writer for TransplantFirstAcademy and ProActive Path, Member of AT-CURA Psychology Lab, Contributor for a student policy review, Vice President of Outreach for the Almas Jiwani Foundation, worked with Manahel Thabet on numerous initiatives, Student Member of the Ad–Hoc Executive Compensation Review Committee for the Athabasca University Student Union, Volunteer and Writer for British Columbia Psychological Association, Community Member of the KPU Choir (even performed with them alongside the Vancouver Symphony Orchestra), Delegate at Harvard World MUN, NWMUN, UBC MUN, and Long Beach Intercollegiate MUN, and Writer and Member of the Communications Committee for The PIPE UP Network.

He published in American Enterprise InstituteAnnaborgiaConatus NewsEarth Skin & EdenFresh Start Recovery CentreGordon Neighbourhood HouseHuffington PostIn-Sight: Independent Interview-Based JournalJolly DragonsKwantlen Polytechnic University Psychology DepartmentLa Petite MortLearning Analytics Research GroupLifespan Cognition Psychology LabLost in SamaraMarijuana Party of CanadaMomMandyNoesis: The Journal of the Mega SocietyPiece of MindProduction ModeSynapseTeenFinancialThe PeakThe UbysseyThe Voice MagazineTransformative DialoguesTreasure Box KidsTrusted Clothes.


[1] Four format points for the session article:
  1. Bold text following “Scott Douglas Jacobsen:” or “Jacobsen:” is Scott Douglas Jacobsen & non-bold text following “Rick Rosner:” or “Rosner:” is Rick Rosner. 
  2. Session article conducted, transcribed, edited, formatted, and published by Scott. 
  3. Footnotes & in-text citations in the interview & references after the interview. 
  4. This session article has been edited for clarity and readability. 
For further information on the formatting guidelines incorporated into this document, please see the following documents:
  1. American Psychological Association. (2010). Citation Guide: APA. Retrieved from
  2. Humble, A. (n.d.). Guide to Transcribing. Retrieved from
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